Help with CSS Menu
am 05.06.2007 16:16:19 von brandon
I can't get the my CSS menu to display properly. Not sure what's going
on, but I'm probably not designing the nested list styles correctly.
Any help is much appreciated.
Thanks.
Html:
CSS:
#nav ul
{
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
list-style: none;
width: 50px;
display: block;
border-width: 1px;
border-style: solid;
border-color: #000000;
background-color: #cccccc;
border-bottom: 1px, solid, #000000;
}
/* Position list items stacked vertically.*/
#nav li
{
position: relative;
}
/* Create sub-menu to appear to the right of its parent menu item when
that item is hovered over.*/
#nav li ul
{
position: absolute;
top: -1px;
left: 100%;
display: none;
}
/* */
#nav ul ul ul li a {
display: block;
text-decoration: none;
color: #777;
background: #fff;
border-bottom: 0;
}
/* Sub-menu hover */
#nav ul ul,
#nav ul ul ul,
#nav ul li:hover ul ul ul,
#nav ul ul li: hover u1 u1
{ display: none; }
#nav ul li:hover ul,
#nav u1 ul li:hover ul,
#nav ul ul ul li:hover ul
{ display: block; }
Re: Help with CSS Menu
am 05.06.2007 16:53:56 von jkorpela
Scripsit Brandon:
> I can't get the my CSS menu to display properly. Not sure what's going
> on, but I'm probably not designing the nested list styles correctly.
I'm sure you need to fix something.
(To get a more specific answer, ask a more specific question. Just telling
that something does not "display properly" is pointless.)
>
Post a URL, not snippets.
>
The "\" character is not allowed in URLs.
--
Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Re: Help with CSS Menu
am 05.06.2007 20:30:17 von brandon
On Jun 5, 10:53 am, "Jukka K. Korpela" wrote:
> Scripsit Brandon:
>
> > I can't get the my CSS menu to display properly. Not sure what's going
> > on, but I'm probably not designing the nested list styles correctly.
>
> I'm sure you need to fix something.
>
> (To get a more specific answer, ask a more specific question. Just telling
> that something does not "display properly" is pointless.)
>
> >
>
> Post a URL, not snippets.
>
> >
>
> The "\" character is not allowed in URLs.
>
> --
> Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Please refer to:
http://www.imfx.com/test/
I only want sub-menus list indices to display when it's parent list
index is hovered over. It's not doing that. You can see that two list
trees are overlapping if you hover over 2007 because it's displaying
the entire tree hierarchy below 2007, not just 05.
Any ideas how to fix this?
Thanks,
-Brandon
Re: Help with CSS Menu
am 05.06.2007 21:08:57 von jkorpela
Scripsit Brandon:
> Please refer to:
> http://www.imfx.com/test/
You have about one HTML markup error (probably a serious one) and three CSS
syntax errors.
> I only want sub-menus list indices to display when it's parent list
> index is hovered over. It's not doing that.
The whole idea is pointless. "Expanding menus" are bad for usability - and
accessibility.
--
Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
To join the Clueless Club, quote my entire message, including this sig.
Re: Help with CSS Menu
am 05.06.2007 22:18:30 von John Hosking
Brandon wrote:
> On Jun 5, 10:53 am, "Jukka K. Korpela" wrote:
>> Scripsit Brandon:
>>
>>> I can't get the my CSS menu to display properly.
Here, you probably really mean "to display the way I want it," as
opposed to "to display properly." In FF, at least, I think it's being
displayed properly. In IE <7, :hover is not supported for elements
besides , so although I didn't look at your page in IE, I don't
expect it to work there either.
>> Post a URL, not snippets.
Brandon, here's where you should have inserted the URL (rather than down
below). I know Google Groups doesn't make it simple for you. But you can
quote the previous poster's message, inject your responses at the
relevant points, and delete the parts which aren't directly relevant to
your reply.
>>
>> --
>> Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
You don't need to quote other posters' signatures. In future posts, feel
free to manually trim the sig separator and what follows.
> http://www.imfx.com/test/
>
> I only want sub-menus list indices to display when it's parent list
> index is hovered over. It's not doing that. You can see that two list
> trees are overlapping if you hover over 2007 because it's displaying
> the entire tree hierarchy below 2007, not just 05.
>
> Any ideas how to fix this?
Yes. When you use rules like
#nav ul li:hover ul,
#nav u1 ul li:hover ul,
#nav ul ul ul li:hover ul
{ display: block; }
you are specifying the display (as block) of *all* the ul elements which
are descendants of #nav ul li:hover (or #nav u1 ul li:hover or #nav ul
ul ul li:hover). So you've told the browser to display all the s
which are under the hovered list item.
What I'm guessing you want is to have the menus expand only when the
immediate parent is being hovered. For that, you need to specify more
rules, more fully. Child selectors might help, but child selectors are
not supported by IE 5, 5.5 and 6. Don't know about IE7.
Looks tedious, doesn't it? And this is just your little test page; I
imagine you foresee pages in the future with more content (i.e., more
cascading menus with fuller lists). FWIW, you might be happy with some
of the pre-done menus at Listamatic
(http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/). You'll have to work out the
nesting yourself, though.
Even more tedious is the user's experience, because it can be really
difficult the manipulate the mouse so as to successfully negotiate the
weavy path of your menu. One false twitch and the whole menu can
disappear out from under your visitor.
HTH
--
John
Re: Help with CSS Menu
am 06.06.2007 05:49:03 von Adrienne Boswell
Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "Jukka K. Korpela"
writing in
news:Ywi9i.174197$B04.124047@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi:
>
> The whole idea is pointless. "Expanding menus" are bad for usability -
> and accessibility.
>
Amen to that! I can't stand the things, especially since I can't seem to
get my mouse over the link before the darned thing collapses again. I
don't like it any UI -- web, programs, etc.
--
Adrienne Boswell at Home
Arbpen Web Site Design Services
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
Please respond to the group so others can share
Re: Help with CSS Menu
am 06.06.2007 17:11:16 von brandon
I didn't really ask for advice on usability. This is what I wanted and
I wasn't sure how to fix the desired result, at first. Kudos to John
for the tips. Besides, some people have skills with the mouse...
Re: Help with CSS Menu
am 06.06.2007 18:01:58 von jkorpela
Scripsit Brandon:
> I didn't really ask for advice on usability.
This isn't a helpdesk. You ask whatever you like, we discuss it the way we
like. If our discussion happens to answer your question, it's often less
useful than the rest, especially since the answers are so often wrong.
This is a discussion forum, where you are expected to quote or paraphrase
the message you are commenting on.
> Besides, some people have skills with the mouse...
And some people have a clue, at times.
--
Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Re: Help with CSS Menu
am 06.06.2007 18:44:49 von El Kabong
I've never liked them either as they're particularly frustrating to older
users.
What do you recommend as an alternative that still allows fairly smooth and
quick navigation to all parts of the site? Is there a way to make them
remain expanded until something, whether in the list or elsewhere, is
clicked?
El
"Adrienne Boswell" wrote in message
news:Xns9946D3C2CE35Barbpenyahoocom@69.28.186.121...
> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "Jukka K. Korpela"
> writing in
> news:Ywi9i.174197$B04.124047@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi:
>
>>
>> The whole idea is pointless. "Expanding menus" are bad for usability -
>> and accessibility.
>>
>
> Amen to that! I can't stand the things, especially since I can't seem to
> get my mouse over the link before the darned thing collapses again. I
> don't like it any UI -- web, programs, etc.
>
> --
> Adrienne Boswell at Home
> Arbpen Web Site Design Services
> http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
> Please respond to the group so others can share
>
Re: Help with CSS Menu
am 07.06.2007 06:53:18 von Adrienne Boswell
Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "El Kabong"
writing in news:5wB9i.734$wq.249@trnddc04:
Please don't top post. My reply is at the bottom.
>
> "Adrienne Boswell" wrote in message
> news:Xns9946D3C2CE35Barbpenyahoocom@69.28.186.121...
>> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "Jukka K. Korpela"
>> writing in
>> news:Ywi9i.174197$B04.124047@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi:
>>
>>>
>>> The whole idea is pointless. "Expanding menus" are bad for usability
>>> - and accessibility.
>>>
>>
>> Amen to that! I can't stand the things, especially since I can't
>> seem to get my mouse over the link before the darned thing collapses
>> again. I don't like it any UI -- web, programs, etc.
>>
> I've never liked them either as they're particularly frustrating to
> older users.
>
> What do you recommend as an alternative that still allows fairly
> smooth and quick navigation to all parts of the site? Is there a way
> to make them remain expanded until something, whether in the list or
> elsewhere, is clicked?
>
> El
>
I did something for Holy Family , that has
some older parishoners. Once you click on the plus sign, the menu
expands and stays that way until you collapse it again. The entire menu
is generated server side, no javascript or flyouts at all.
--
Adrienne Boswell at Home
Arbpen Web Site Design Services
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
Please respond to the group so others can share
Re: Help with CSS Menu
am 07.06.2007 13:46:36 von Bergamot
El Kabong wrote:
>
> What do you recommend as an alternative that still allows fairly smooth and
> quick navigation to all parts of the site?
Make a separate site map page and link to it on every page.
--
Berg
Re: Help with CSS Menu
am 07.06.2007 14:46:46 von El Kabong
"Adrienne Boswell" wrote in message
news:Xns9947DEA8FEBD2arbpenyahoocom@69.28.186.121...
> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "El Kabong"
> writing in news:5wB9i.734$wq.249@trnddc04:
>
> Please don't top post. My reply is at the bottom.
>
My apologies. The only group with whom I've previously posted seemed to
prefer top posting and almost never trimmed responses. I'll try to be more
carefull with this group as I see some members are extremely sensitive to
form. I really do appreciate their comments.
(snip)
>>
>> What do you recommend as an alternative that still allows fairly
>> smooth and quick navigation to all parts of the site? Is there a way
>> to make them remain expanded until something, whether in the list or
>> elsewhere, is clicked?
>>
>> El
>>
>
> I did something for Holy Family , that has
> some older parishoners. Once you click on the plus sign, the menu
> expands and stays that way until you collapse it again. The entire menu
> is generated server side, no javascript or flyouts at all.
>
This looks good and is certainly the preferred approach but, unfortunately
for me, I am unfamiliar with ASP. Perhaps I can either devise or locate
something similar using ColdFusion, which I have used for about 6 or 7 years
or PHP which I am just beginning to learn.
Thanks again for your advice.
El
Re: Help with CSS Menu
am 07.06.2007 14:49:30 von El Kabong
"Bergamot" wrote in message
news:5cq9h1F31qtqnU2@mid.individual.net...
> El Kabong wrote:
>>
>> What do you recommend as an alternative that still allows fairly smooth
>> and
>> quick navigation to all parts of the site?
>
> Make a separate site map page and link to it on every page.
>
It seems that would surely work but isn't it a little cumbersome? Do you
have an example online?
Thanks,
El
Re: Help with CSS Menu
am 07.06.2007 15:04:00 von freemont
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 04:53:18 +0000, Adrienne Boswell writ:
> I did something for Holy Family , that has
> some older parishoners. Once you click on the plus sign, the menu
> expands and stays that way until you collapse it again. The entire menu
> is generated server side, no javascript or flyouts at all.
Under Clergy, both links get 404's. Just FYI. :-)
Very pretty site.
--
"Because all you of Earth are idiots!"
¯`·..·¯`·-> freemont© <-·¯`·..·¯
Re: Help with CSS Menu
am 07.06.2007 15:17:55 von El Kabong
"freemont" wrote in message
news:dd1f5$46680240$471e2b6c$508@ALLTEL.NET...
>
> Under Clergy, both links get 404's. Just FYI. :-)
>
That happened to me, too, but I clicked back and tried again and it came up
right away.
Could the timing of the server response be too slow or is FireFox timing out
too fast or something other kind of sync problem?
El
Re: Help with CSS Menu
am 07.06.2007 15:31:01 von Bergamot
El Kabong wrote:
> "Bergamot" wrote in message
> news:5cq9h1F31qtqnU2@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> Make a separate site map page and link to it on every page.
>
> It seems that would surely work but isn't it a little cumbersome?
A site map is no more cumbersome (actually much less, for me) than those
dreaded drop-down or fly-out menus that require dexterity with a mouse
that I lack. They are often poorly designed and don't adapt well to my
particular browsing environment. I loathe the things.
Besides, with a site map, you can do things like 'find in page', or
browse the whole thing at your own pace and not worry about silly
time-outs or precise cursor placements. Much less trouble, IMO.
> Do you have an example online?
You've never been to a site that has a site map? That seems odd.
--
Berg
Re: Help with CSS Menu
am 07.06.2007 15:59:14 von El Kabong
"Bergamot" wrote in message
news:5cqfksF30s58vU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Do you have an example online?
>
> You've never been to a site that has a site map? That seems odd.
>
Sheltered, or in this case perhaps, "not exposed" life, I guess. I do not
recall ever having to click back and forth from a site map to a page, back
to the site map, on to another page, back to the site map again, etc., etc.
Or perhaps you meant to have the pages targeted to open new windows. That
might not be quite as clumsy or, in real life, could be even more of a
nuisance.
Perhaps I have imagined the concept incorrectly. That's why an actual
example would be helpful.
El
Re: Help with CSS Menu
am 07.06.2007 16:20:17 von Ed Mullen
Adrienne Boswell wrote:
> I did something for Holy Family , that has
> some older parishoners. Once you click on the plus sign, the menu
> expands and stays that way until you collapse it again. The entire menu
> is generated server side, no javascript or flyouts at all.
Just FYI, several of the links are returning errors such as:
Microsoft VBScript compilation error '800a0411'
Name redefined
/advert_inc.asp, line 2
dim hasadverts, advertarr, sql, rs
--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
http://mozilla.edmullen.net
http://abington.edmullen.net
Re: Help with CSS Menu
am 07.06.2007 20:06:11 von Bergamot
El Kabong wrote:
> "Bergamot" wrote in message
>>
>> You've never been to a site that has a site map? That seems odd.
>
> I do not
> recall ever having to click back and forth from a site map to a page,
I wasn't suggesting that a site should use *only* a site map for
navigation. But for a large site, I find them a lot easier to work with
than those awful multi-level navigation menus. I think top-level links
should be accessible from every page. It's the links to sub pages that
are under debate.
Why do you think every sub page need to be accessible from every other
sub page? Make them accessible within their (sub)section and leave the
rest out. Much less complicated that way.
> Or perhaps you meant to have the pages targeted to open new windows.
Never in a million years.
--
Berg
Re: Help with CSS Menu
am 07.06.2007 20:20:57 von El Kabong
"Bergamot" wrote in message
news:5cqvopF316q1bU1@mid.individual.net...
> I wasn't suggesting that a site should use *only* a site map for
> navigation. But for a large site, I find them a lot easier to work with
> than those awful multi-level navigation menus. I think top-level links
> should be accessible from every page. It's the links to sub pages that
> are under debate.
>
> Why do you think every sub page need to be accessible from every other
> sub page? Make them accessible within their (sub)section and leave the
> rest out. Much less complicated that way.
>
I agree that is a much preferable site plan to the "fly-away" drop downs and
if it was always my choice alone, that's the way it would always be. But
clients, for some strange reason, like "gizmos" and sometimes will choose a
designer based on who will give them them the most irritaing, useless,
stupid gadgets on their pages, such as animated gifs, decorative Java
applets, and, most of the time, Flash.
For situations where clients make a demand, it would be great if there was a
way to "latch" the submenu in a similar fashion to Adrienne's asp menus. My
problem is that I don't use asp and it would take too much of my time to
learn it just for a single "gizmo".
Surely, (not "shirley") there must be a JavaScript or other technique that
will latch a submenu, isn't there?
>> Or perhaps you meant to have the pages targeted to open new windows.
>
> Never in a million years.
Thought not. (Just kidding.)
El
Re: Help with CSS Menu
am 07.06.2007 21:57:16 von Bergamot
El Kabong wrote:
>
> clients, for some strange reason, like "gizmos"
"The client is always right" is a fallacy.
> it would be great if there was a
> way to "latch" the submenu in a similar fashion to Adrienne's asp menus. My
> problem is that I don't use asp
You don't need asp. You can do the job in any server-side language, even
with basic server-side includes. If server-side stuff isn't your cup of
tea, get a preprocessor and generate it all locally, then upload static
web pages.
--
Berg
Re: Help with CSS Menu
am 08.06.2007 01:01:44 von dorayme
In article <5cr692F2vsmbjU1@mid.individual.net>,
Bergamot wrote:
> El Kabong wrote:
> >
> > clients, for some strange reason, like "gizmos"
>
> "The client is always right" is a fallacy.
>
> > it would be great if there was a
> > way to "latch" the submenu in a similar fashion to Adrienne's asp menus. My
> > problem is that I don't use asp
>
> You don't need asp. You can do the job in any server-side language, even
> with basic server-side includes. If server-side stuff isn't your cup of
> tea, get a preprocessor and generate it all locally, then upload static
> web pages.
Bergamot's view on this is quite sound. I have always thought
that users are as likely or more to get confused by a big menu as
not. For those who want to take some overall view, a site map is
a good way to go and is even quite a useful thing for an author
to make to give an overall view of structure.
There is another way to keep clutter and confusion off the
navigation system: provide a good search site facility. The user
usually does not simply want to see what is on your site without
a question in his or her mind, that is where a search box can
come in handy.
--
dorayme
Re: Help with CSS Menu
am 08.06.2007 02:39:53 von El Kabong
"Bergamot" wrote in message
news:5cr692F2vsmbjU1@mid.individual.net...
>> clients, for some strange reason, like "gizmos"
>
> "The client is always right" is a fallacy.
>
Correct, but they always pay for the work, soooo... they get to say what it
looks like in the end. Ugly. Stupid. Wate of time. They bought it. They own
it. It's theirs. I give them the best advice I can about what is a good idea
and what is a bad idea and then shut up and accept payment. They aren't
always right but it's always their money.
>> it would be great if there was a
>> way to "latch" the submenu in a similar fashion to Adrienne's asp menus.
>> My
>> problem is that I don't use asp
>
> You don't need asp. You can do the job in any server-side language, even
> with basic server-side includes. If server-side stuff isn't your cup of
> tea, get a preprocessor and generate it all locally, then upload static
> web pages.
I'm certain there are other technologies that can do this job and I'm
familiar with CF and SSI but have never seen either used to latch
dropdowns.. I've Googled every string I can think of that might be relevant
but I can't find anything that will give me a clue as to *how* to get the
dropdowns to latch. Even found a very ugly method using a "jump" form with a
select box but it's so profoundly hideous there is no way I would ever
suggest it and it doesn't "latch" anyway.
Your comments are well appreciated and my first offering to a client will
continue to include submenus on related pages rather than drop downs.
However, I like to eat and my bank loves it when I make my mortgage payments
so I guess I'm going to continue using the worst of all options when the
client insists.
El
Re: Help with CSS Menu
am 08.06.2007 02:44:47 von El Kabong
"dorayme" wrote in message
news:doraymeRidThis-ACEC28.09014408062007@news-vip.optusnet. com.au...
> There is another way to keep clutter and confusion off the
> navigation system: provide a good search site facility. The user
> usually does not simply want to see what is on your site without
> a question in his or her mind, that is where a search box can
> come in handy.
On large sites I quite often use search boxes. They aren't really needed on
most smaller (10 pages or less) sites though. It kind of depends on the
situation and whether the visitor is likely to have a prior expectation
regarding the content, that is to say, they have something specific in mind
for which they are looking.
Thanks.
El
Re: Help with CSS Menu
am 08.06.2007 03:11:01 von dorayme
In article <3E1ai.11388$ih.5878@trnddc03>,
"El Kabong" wrote:
> "dorayme" wrote in message
> news:doraymeRidThis-ACEC28.09014408062007@news-vip.optusnet. com.au...
> > There is another way to keep clutter and confusion off the
> > navigation system: provide a good search site facility. The user
> > usually does not simply want to see what is on your site without
> > a question in his or her mind, that is where a search box can
> > come in handy.
>
> On large sites I quite often use search boxes. They aren't really needed on
> most smaller (10 pages or less) sites though. It kind of depends on the
> situation and whether the visitor is likely to have a prior expectation
> regarding the content, that is to say, they have something specific in mind
> for which they are looking.
>
Of course, if a site is just 10 pages or less, there is hardly
need for a complicated menu in the first place.
--
dorayme